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cs3narutoiPassive - Right now the passive is pretty good, but it only works best when she is in low health. While it is pretty unique it is not very consistent, although it does really help when she is low.
1. Karma also gains a slight stat buff when out of Mantra charges.
This passive would help Karma to be able to stay in fights longer when she is out of charges. It will also help give Karma the time to replenish charges and still be strong when out of Mantra Charges.
2. Karma also gains increased cooldown reduction when she has no Mantra charges.
I think that one of the main problems for Karma right now is that she only really have 1 constant damage skill. While her shield is really powerful, it needs a Mantra charge. The long cooldowns for the charges really diminish her damage output, especially in early game where the cooldown is like 30 seconds. The cooldown reduction would help Karma replenish those charges and deal more damage.
Q - This skill is pretty decent as it is right now. There aren't many problems with is for AP Karma's. When she goes support, she also has her shield, so this skill is already pretty good as it is. The only downside is the cooldown for the Mantra charges to apply the heal.
1. With Mantra - Increased heal or adds a buff effect. Only works on allied champions.
This would help make the champions more durable and have a bit more sustainability. If will provide the buffs that most heals give. The reason for it to only work on allied champions is because the buffs or stronger heals on minions would be a bit too over powered. This would also help Karma to not push her lane as much.
W - The other thing I think that Karma lack is the stronger CC that other ap casters and supports have. The slow + speed is actually pretty useful to help chase or escape, but I still think that having a stronger form of CC would make her a bit better.
1. Without Mantra - Single Target only. Has the same slow/haste amount. Has reduced cast and leash range.
With Mantra - The speed modification is the same as without Mantra. Now damages and CC's the enemy target at the end of the duration.
This would give her a form of CC to help secure kills, and also get away from danger. Because this skill is not a skill shot like LeBlanc's, the range should be way shorter than is is now. This would also increase Karma's damage output.
2. Without Mantra - Reduced range. Same speed change amounts.
With Mantra - Speed changes are same as without Mantra. CC's and damages all enemies if they stay in the leash for the full duration.
This would make Karma a better support, as it gives another form of CC besides slow. This skill would also allow enemies to escape from the CC as then can move out of the leash; except for the target.
E - The shield right now is really strong, but the only thing that it is lacking is the buffs that most shields provide(Armour, AD, etc.). Another problem would be because the damage effect needs the long cooldown of Mantra charges.
1. Without Mantra - The shield now provides a form of buff.
This would make support Karma more viable as it will have the buff property that most support shields and heals have.
2. Without Mantra - At the end of the duration, the shield explodes and deals damage to surrounding enemies. If the shield breaks before it wears off, it deals slight damage to surrounding enemies.
This would help Karma deal more damage without using her Mantra. This skill, however, will probably not be the best for support style as it may steal minions and champion kills.
Ultimate - This is what makes Karma a really unique champion. The main problem is that in early game, especially without cooldown reduction, it take too long to load.
1. Has shorter cooldown during early levels.
Something like 26/23/20 would really help Karma keep up with her damage and sustainability more in early game. During late game, most players buy cooldown reduction items so it shouldn't really be a problem.#19 months, 1 week ago -
QA Analyst
So, I'm gonna hijack your thread a little, because this idea is relevant to my interests. You hit on a few things that we could do, but I'd like to make the topic broader if you don't mind.
Without going into specific numbers on any given skills, what do you (the community and OP) think makes Karma less satisfying to play than other champions in a similar role?
If you could make one change, what would it be? Again- not numbers. Gameplay. Thematic. Kit cohesion.
How do we make Karma interesting and fun without drastically changing her? What do you think?#29 months, 1 week ago -
QA Analyst
No clue! I'm asking because I value the opinions of this forum and I think this is a good discussion. Karma's an interesting case.
Some common themes I've picked up:
1) Using Mantra charges does not feel impactful
2) Karma needs too many stats to be effective with her current kit
3) The duality aspect of her spells does not feel significant enough
4) Spirit bond is not satisfying or has too high of a burden of knowledge on your lane mate
5) Her lack of hard CC compared to other supports makes her feel weak as a 0 CS support, which feeds into 2).
Does all of that sound about right?
This. I'd be happy to kick off a separate conversation some other time where we take a champion, lay out its core thematics, and create an entirely new kit for that champion that still feels satisfying. It'd be a really interesting exercise. Just not today!A lot of these changes are so well thought-out but they change way too much about Karma as she is @_@. A rework isn't supposed to be the release of a brand new champion, it's supposed to be the refinement of an already existing champion, retaining their theme and 'feel', in a way that brings them up to today's standard of design.#39 months, 1 week ago -
QA Analyst
That one's digging into numbers- I'm trying to avoid those in this conversation, as numbers are 'easy' to tweak, but kit changes, thematic differences, etc, should have a lot of thought put into them. I would imagine we'd take a closer look at her spells and the power attached to them as part of any rework. #49 months, 1 week ago -
QA Analyst
Glad to see some players like her!
For those of you who play her regularly, how do you feel about her appearance? Her overall thematic? Do you use skins for her, and if so, which? If not, why not?
Don't let these questions detract from the original ones. And other posters, feel free to comment on other summoner's posts. While I asked those questions, my intent was to encourage a discussion for all of you. As Karma is often discussed as needing 'something' to be more attractive to play, I think it would be interesting to see if the community can come up with what that 'something' could be!#59 months, 1 week ago -
QA Analyst
So, what's the next step here? I think that we can take the list of items that you've identified as weak points in her kit or thematic and generalize them a bit so that we can apply them to your own creations. Here's the previous list, with an item added:
Common themes:
1) Using Mantra charges does not feel impactful
2) Karma needs too many stats to be effective with her current kit
3) The duality aspect of her spells does not feel significant enough
4) Spirit bond is not satisfying or has too high of a burden of knowledge on your lane mate
5) Her lack of hard CC compared to other supports makes her feel weak as a 0 CS support, which feeds into 2).
6) The progression of her spells doesn't feel significant.
And, my first pass at an updated, general list:
1) Abilities should feel impactful. This does not necessarily mean damage.
2) Be mindful of the amount of stats your concept needs, compared to the amount of income they are able to put towards those stats.
3a) If making a support, some form of hard or soft CC should be part of the kit in a way that allows you to use it responsively.
3b) If making an AP, have enough spells that combine in a clear or meaningful way to keep the gameplay interesting.
4) When you are trying to establish a theme with your champion, make sure that theme carries into gameplay clearly.
5) Try to avoid placing a high burden of knowledge on your team. Use clear visual cues to communicate the language of your skills.
Does that seem about right? Using the key points that have been identified in this thread, how can you improve your own concept/s?#69 months, 1 week ago -
QA AnalystThere seems to be some confusion that I'm asking these questions to directly influence her remake - it's mostly intended as an exercise for the posters on this forum to try and understand what the flaws of a given champion are, how to identify them, and improve their own concepts as part of that process.sigh. no, not really. I don't agree with half of your list riotames. In fact, I just played a game as karma and dominated mid against a karthus. Karma plays like mord; you play as a bully in lane. Clear creep waves and harrass. Always shield and heal, never die. TBH, only bursty mids like LB or possibly annie could shut down a karma mid.
I beg of you, don't take this aspect away. I love the duality of her spells with her mantras. I love the feeling of control I have when I get a cooperative team. (teamwork is key) And I love how she can excel at more than just 0 cs bot. Plz don't take that from me with her remake.
I love how her shield is one of the largest aoe nukes in the game. I love how she has an aoe skill shot heal. (which atm is -the- most unique skill in the game) And I feel these things are what makes karma karma.
Which isn't to say that the feedback here can't inform some decisions that might get made about her eventual rework or any other, but that's not my goal here.#79 months, 1 week ago -
QA AnalystI don't get too deep into kit when I'm thinking about designs- I'll write up some potential skills that I think work thematically with a champion and stop there. Then again, I'm not an aspiring designer.Is it enough to just make sure a AP or AD champion has a way to farm effectively (and interestingly), or would it ask something more of the designer, asking you to plan the champion to farm better or worse based solely upon the fact that they depend on a greater or fewer number of stats?
Is such design even sound?
The problem that people are discussing about Karma is that if she fills the role most people think she does, she requires items because much of her power is centered around her math and not things like CC, buffs, or debuffs.
I've seen similar discussions for ADCs, APs, and tops- sometimes you have to pick up one or two items to 'correct' weaknesses in a champion's kit. You just have to be able to afford to do it.#89 months, 1 week ago
